Episode 30
What's your money ceiling and how do you raise it?
We often have a certain number in our minds that we feel is an appropriate amount to charge, which can limit them from charging more.
In this episode, Carlos and Ben discuss the concept of a money ceiling and how individuals can raise it. They explore the fear of rejection that comes with raising prices and the internal challenge of what is fair to charge.
Ultimately, they hope to encourage you to explore higher prices and feel empowered to charge what you believe your services are worth.
Links
Transcript
I'm wondering if we're going to re rename this cuz we've got too many different bloody names for things.
Ben:Carlos, Ben.
Carlos:Waking up to Money.
Carlos:Happy pricing.
Carlos:Happy Startup School.
Carlos:10% better Bud in the boardroom.
Carlos:Yeah.
Carlos:For those of you who are joining you, some of that stuff does not make any sense.
Carlos:So today we're gonna be talking about, uh, money ceilings, uh, what your money ceiling is and how you may be able to raise it.
Carlos:So what, uh, Ben and I will probably kick off or are gonna kick off with is what, what does that mean?
Carlos:What does that phrase mean to us?
Carlos:Or that those two words, money ceiling, mean to us and our own experiences of working with that money ceiling.
Carlos:Um, and.
Carlos:Our, our hope and our intention for this morning is for you to go away feeling like you can explore higher prices that you than you are charging now.
Carlos:Um, we have an assumption that there are people out there who don't believe that they could charge more than what they are charging at the moment, for whatever reason.
Carlos:And we'll probably explore what those reasons may be as to why they can't double their prices, as some people say, or go to to, to levels that feel uncomfortable.
Carlos:But before we start, Ben, what is this money ceiling thing to you?
Ben:I guess I, the, the way I sort of think about that there was a coaching program that I was on, uh, when I was running my last company a few years ago, which was talking around a kind of ceiling of complexity.
Ben:Now that was, uh, in a kind of different context.
Ben:It was just about, you know, the thing that we tend to do as kind of entrepreneurs is kind of inadvertently load more and more things into our day.
Ben:And, uh, as a consequence of that, we get further and further away from the thing where we have a real kind of, uh, in their words, a kind of unique ability or that kind of sort of sweet spot of kind of interest and capability.
Ben:We get kind of further and further away.
Ben:And they spoke about this idea of a ceiling of complexity and the need to kind of, sort of, to kind of reframe, to get above the ceiling of complexity.
Ben:And I, I like that kind of.
Ben:Uh, generally, uh, but I also kind of feel it is kind of really relevant, uh, in the context of money and prices and what we charge and what we earn.
Ben:Uh, because I think, um, I guess one of the first times I really thought about this, an ex-girlfriend of mine, uh, she was a, uh, she was a coach and, uh, I remember talking to her.
Ben:I was running my company at the time.
Ben:I remember talking to her about, about money and, um, she, she was really, really comfortable charging a lot of.
Ben:For, um, for the, for the work, the, the kind of advisory work that she did.
Ben:Um, you know, and amounts, which kind of seemed to me kind of way, you know, too high, I would say.
Ben:They, they kind of, sort of seemed like they were sort of too high and, um, she kind of really had a, a kind of very sort of useful way of kind of framing that back to me.
Ben:And it kind of helped me realize, actually it was all my idea about what was an acceptable amount for you to be able to charge, which actually links to what is an an acceptable amount for you to earn?
Ben:And so I kind of sort of was then sort of struck both then in running our own company and then conversation have with other people this idea that actually we do have an expected, we, we have a figure in our mind, which is not a kind of set figure.
Ben:It might sort of change.
Ben:We have an idea in our mind about what is an appropriate amount to charge, what is an emo, you know, what is the amount that they will pay?
Ben:And we kind of then wrap that up into it.
Ben:You know, we tell ourselves that there's a story around market rates.
Ben:So this is what I can, this is what I can charge, or I'm being greedy or that's excessive and all of these sorts of things.
Ben:And so there is this kind of a level that we kind of bring to all of our sort of conversations with clients, uh, which then manifested money.
Ben:And that's a level that we are imposing on the conversation.
Ben:It's a level which completely ignore.
Ben:What might be important to our clients or prospects, but is a ceiling.
Ben:And it's a ceiling like my hat that our head bumps into regularly.
Carlos:I'm curious about the whole a ceiling of complexity.
Carlos:Um, there's a few things that spring to mind when even talking about, uh, the stuff that we do in the Happy Pricing course and all the, the variables and factors and things to think.
Carlos:When you're thinking about prices, that that can feel a bit overwhelming and trying to think, oh, I've got all of these elements that I need to combine and, and, and work on in order to get or to price well.
Carlos:So that's one thing that springs to mind, just the kind of just the technical aspects of pricing higher.
Carlos:For me the, there are few things that I think about when I think about this pri money ceiling.
Carlos:So for a lot of people in our happy Startup community who are a, I'd say purpose driven, but also very ethically minded.
Ben:Mm-hmm.
Carlos:And so there is an element of what is fair to charge compared to, you know, looking at people who, um, don't have as much money or we feel this is the other we feel don't have as much money as they need to in order to pay a certain, uh, price.
Carlos:And so there's that imposed belief that actually I, I'm not allowed to charge more because it's, it's wrong.
Carlos:And then I think there's this other element of, kind of a fear of rejection.
Ben:Mm-hmm.
Carlos:If I put my prices so up so high, and then someone says, no, how am I gonna feel?
Ben:Mm-hmm
Ben:. Carlos: It's, it is much more of a internal challenge that I'm speaking to there.
Ben:And, and personally, I, I, my father, he worked for himself.
Ben:In a sense, because of the work he did, he took people around Europe to see beautiful cities.
Ben:He was, he was like a, a tour guide, but he would spend like months with people, or weeks with people anyway.
Ben:They'd paid loads of money for this thing.
Ben:They could, uh, easily traveled on their own, but they would pay, you know, maybe £50 to go and see a museum, and there'd be like, I don't know, 30, 40 of them.
Ben:So, you know, you could earn two grand just to take people for two hours around the museum.
Ben:And so the, I had this thing like, well, you know, there's no, there's, there's no upper limit to how much you can charge if people are willing to pay for it.
Ben:And so I, I even in my work is like, I was really, I didn't like the idea of an hourly rate.
Ben:I thought like, if it's gonna take me 10 minutes and they're willing to pay 250 quid, then fine.
Ben:Mm-hmm.
Carlos:I don't have a problem with that.
Carlos:Though I know some people say, oh, that's, that's terrible.
Carlos:How can you charge that much money for something that doesn't really take that much time?
Carlos:And so for me it was very much a case of like the, the fear of rejection more than anything else.
Ben:Mm-hmm.
Carlos:Like, oh, I wanna charge a grand for something.
Carlos:But if they say no, what does that say about me?
Ben:Mm-hmm.
Carlos:And so that's for me, and uh, I think with that freedom needed, feel, wanting that freedom.
Carlos:or that permission to say, actually, if I want to charge 5,000 pounds for a coaching program, that's perfectly fine.
Carlos:Just forgetting everything else, just like saying that number, it shouldn't be immediately, Ugh, I can't charge that because that number has a particular meaning.
Carlos:More that, okay.
Carlos:What does it take to then sell something for five grand?
Ben:I think one of the things that people do when it comes to selling, particularly people who don't feel comfortable with selling, pricing and selling are of course, sort of inextricably kind of wrapped up.
Ben:They all, all part of the same coin we might say.
Ben:The thing that people do is that, uh, they kind of be, I think because there is some kind of nervousness around it, because there is some sort of fear around it because there is some sort of, uh, kind of reluctance about it.
Ben:We tend to assume, we kind of accidentally assume quite absolute kind of mindsets around things.
Ben:And so, um, you know, it's, there's, there should never be a just a kinda.
Ben:a a kind of a, a kind of sort of single approach.
Ben:As much as possible as we sort of talk about things should be kind of iterative, things should be conversational.
Ben:And this is true for your kind of sort of selling generally.
Ben:And it's also true for how you kind of think about pricing.
Ben:So the, there wouldn't be a situation or there need not be a situation where you just kind of throw a, a kind of number over a fence, whatever the number is, whatever is, is kind of a lot for what you're doing.
Ben:It's a hundred pounds.
Ben:Is it a thousand pounds?
Ben:Is it a hundred thousand pounds?
Ben:Is it a million pounds?
Ben:Whatever.
Ben:Only you can decide what the a lot is.
Ben:But there would never be, should never be a situation where you just kind of throw it over as an absolute thing, um, and then, you know, expose yourself to the rejection that the absolute number.
Ben:Was too much because there should be some dialogue.
Ben:There should be some, there should be some discussion.
Ben:There should be some opportunity to find out what is sort of acceptable.
Ben:Maybe a kind of challenge, but what is acceptable to your client or your customer?
Ben:What is the value to your client or customer?
Ben:What is it that they kind of want to change?
Ben:And in dialogue, you start to kind of find something out.
Ben:There might be a point in the dialogue or there will be a point in the dialogue where you start to talk about money, where you start to talk numbers.
Ben:And at that point it's kind of useful to kind of offer things around the range cuz what you're trying to do, you're trying to understand from the client or customer what is an acceptable level for them.
Ben:And so it might be that through the dialogue you are exploring different amounts and then, you know, in, in understanding what their response is and seeing what their response is and seeing what they say.
Ben:You start to arrive at a place together, with the client where, which is the sort of acceptable amount.
Ben:So, you know, cuz and even, even if like, let's say we kind of sort of, um, because we are learning, because we are just, we're kind of experimenting with these approaches.
Ben:There is a situation where maybe a little bit too, kind of, sort of nervously, we do kind of throw a, a figure over a fence and there is w you know, we are met with a wall, we're met with rejection, we're met with a, clearly I can't do that.
Ben:Now at that point, you know, you do have a kind of choice.
Ben:You could just sort of scurry, scurry away back to the cave and kind of hide away and kind of wallow in your kind of, sort of the, the rejection and kind of worry that comes from having kind of the feeling that maybe you've offended somebody or you can go back and you can, you can talk about it further.
Ben:You can, you can explore different ways.
Ben:Dividing up your work potentially.
Ben:You can talk about different ways that the client might pay.
Ben:You can talk about different amounts that the client might pay.
Ben:So the, it's never a final thing.
Ben:There is, you know, in the kind of classic sort of sales sort of talk kind of No just means that they don't know.
Ben:And it's not the end, you know, if it's not, that, that point of rejection is not an end point.
Ben:It's just an invitation to a next stage of conversation.
Ben:And so I guess the, the thing I'd sort of say around rejection is, is to try and, as much as possible, approach it with a kind of, sort of light touch, approach it in a, an exploratory way.
Ben:Approach it in a conversational way so that you can arrive at a point which is acceptable for you and acceptable for the client.
Ben:So it's not all about you, and it's not all about whether or not they're happy with an amount that you proposed to them.
Carlos:Well, actually What sprang to mind while you were talking, well, the way I understood it is not holding on too tightly as to whether you'll get a yes or a no.
Ben:Mm-hmm.
Carlos:And so that for me points to the, some of the, the more interesting stuff personally around this stuff, the deeper work around how tightly we hold to expectations
Ben:mm-hmm.
Carlos:And assumptions and how that limits our ability to play an experiment.
Carlos:And so there's an element here of, when I think about the ethics of it, it's like, oh, is it, is it okay to play with pricing?
Carlos:You know, is there, you know, am I messing with people's heads by trying different numbers and throwing them out?
Carlos:And then seeing what comes back?
Ben:Mm-hmm.
Carlos:What does that mean for the customer in inverted commas?
Carlos:And then, you know, you're talking about having a dialogue with the customer.
Carlos:The other element for me is like, okay, say I want to charge five grand.
Carlos:I could talk to someone and say, no, I don't wanna pay five grand.
Carlos:And then I could have a conversation.
Carlos:There's say, what does five grand mean to you?
Carlos:What the kind of outcome do you wanna create?
Carlos:What is your ability to pay?
Carlos:You know, all the tactics and strategies that we talk about in the Happy Pricing course, and we talk about that.
Carlos:And it could be that, that.
Carlos:just is not in the place to pay five grand.
Ben:Yeah.
Carlos:Well, that says to me, uh, one, one way to look at this as well, um, other than, okay, I might need to adjust my prices, is maybe I'm talking to the wrong person.
Ben:Yeah.
Carlos:And I, I just wanted to open that for people, that possibility that I'm actually, you know, I, I could start from the point of I want to earn this much from this thing.
Carlos:full stop.
Carlos:And so rather than, oh, I can't, because the people I've, the X number of people I've talked to can't afford it, maybe I just need to all just go on a hunt.
Ben:Yeah.
Carlos:And understand what does that mean for, you know, with the right person.
Ben:Yeah.
Ben:I mean, I guess the other thing I'd say is it might well be you're speaking to the wrong person, but equally it might well be that you've not yet communicated the value of what you're doing properly.
Ben:So it, it's kind of, it, it would probably be easy to say, oh, I'm speaking to the wrong person, which then does link to the kind of fairness thing, and then the question of, but these are the people that I want to be kind of working with, and the sort of complications that might come around that.
Ben:But, so it, it is very possible you're talking, you know, the, the, the, that person can't afford that amount of money.
Ben:Then there's a conversation around how you might do that.
Ben:But equally, you know, saying no because of money is one of the kind of the, the kind of last defenses that we have when if it feels like someone's trying to sell something to us, which of course, you know, for many people selling feels awkward, but for everybody actually being sold to feels tremendously awkward.
Ben:Nobody likes that.
Ben:We like to buy things.
Ben:We don't like to be sold things.
Ben:And actually one of the kind of defenses that we have when we do feel like someone is trying to sell us something is to say no around money.
Ben:And, uh, like it's too much, whatever is just is is just one of, like I said, it's one of the kind of the, the strongest defenses we have to retain some control in that, in that sort of thing, which is all people are, are really trying to do.
Carlos:And this relates to previous conversations we had around what will more money buy me?
Carlos:So I'm coming from the place of, I have a clear idea of how much I would like to earn because of the things that I would like to be able to do with that money.
Carlos:So I've got a figure now, and then I still, I use these process, these approaches of conversation and really understanding, or trying to use these, uh, this, this conversational approach to get at what the right value is for this customer.
Carlos:The pithy kind of summary for that is you could be asking the right questions to the wrong person.
Ben:Mm-hmm.
Carlosie::you really explored everything and you, you know, you, you, you are working with these, the, the, the pricing, you know, strategies well, it's just that person can't afford you, full stop.
Carlosie::Or you're talking to the right person, but using the wrong questions.
Carlosie::You haven't actually, and when I say right person, wrong questions, you haven't got them to a point where they really understand the value that they're going to get by working with you.
Ben:Mm-hmm.
Carlos:And so having that understanding, there's that potential mismatch rather than it's a personal, oh, you're not with it.
Carlos:It's actually No, just there's a mismatch there.
Carlos:And that's what a.
Carlos:a way to work with that, rather than feel like roadblock can't go forward.
Carlos:It's like, it was like wrong person.
Carlos:Just how quickly can you get to this point of like, this person is clearly not the kind of customer that is gonna help me with my own, uh, aspirations and and dreams and mission, uh, or this is the perfect customer.
Carlos:It's just I'm, I'm not able, for whatever reason, I'm not able to reach them in the way I need to, and so I need to rethink my approach, maybe.
Ben:And, and questions like you point to, uh, can be a really useful way of just in a really rudimentary sense, making some qualifications around that.
Ben:Because if you have a program which you, you know, you would like to be selling for 5,000, say, but the personal company that you are speaking to, uh, only makes 5,000, then clearly they're not going to be able to do that, and you can qualify that relatively easily.
Ben:Uh, and so there, there are things that will help you relatively easily kind of understand whether it really is a case of wrong person or whether it is more likely a case of not yet demonstrated the value of what you are doing.
Carlos:We have a question actually from Vittoria.
Carlos:And so she asks, how do you deal with client rejection?
Carlos:. So this feels like maybe a, a personal question.
Carlos:Ben, how do you deal with client rejection?
Ben:So I guess the first thing is with sort of.
Ben:Try not to deal with it personally as much as possible, uh, I guess is the, is the first thing.
Ben:Of course, there's many reasons why a client would say no, uh, and a client would say no.
Ben:Because I, I think one of the, one sort of qualifying thing I'd say is I think there is a misconception with selling that you selling is persuading somebody to do something.
Ben:And actually in my experience, you've never really persuaded somebody to do something.
Ben:I think for the person to decide to kind of work with you, to buy your product, to buy your service, whatever it may be, is because in some, in some way, they've already decided that they need that.
Ben:They need your thing.
Ben:And so a client, if you sort of take that as the sort of guiding idea that somebody needs to have decided that they want something to change and they see the thing that you have your product or service as their, their, their ability to get that change, so the thing that they want, you have the ability to help them get that.
Ben:And I think the, you know, the, the, the kind of journey, if you like with sort of selling is the client, the customer has already decided that they want something to change.
Ben:You then in working with them, have kind of.
Ben:Kind of come to a conclusion, come to a realization that you can help them get that change, to make that change, then you are on a sort of track to working together.
Ben:So where a client says no, it's because, uh, it could be any num, any number of things on that sort of journey, because they're not yet clear about the change that they want to make, might be one thing.
Ben:That they don't yet understand that you are the solution.
Ben:They're making that change and we're talking abstract, so maybe Carlos can help me sort of land it a little bit more in a second.
Ben:Um, so they, they, they said no because they don't yet kind of understand that you are, you were the kind of route to, to getting that change.
Ben:Or they kind of feel nervous or they feel kind of uncertain or they just, they they, they're not yet kind of sure.
Ben:And so clients often are saying, Just because they, they're not, they're trying to buy themselves time to kind of work out what it is that they're thinking.
Ben:They're trying to work out how it is that what you do, Connects to what they want.
Ben:So kind of no is a way of kind of buying time in many instances.
Ben:And I don't say that because then the kind of invitation is for you to kind of keep badgering them, but just to kind of know when a client says, no, it's not personal, it's not about you.
Ben:It's that classic thing.
Ben:It is about what they're thinking about.
Ben:And so there might be they, they might be in a place where they're just not ready to do it.
Ben:And that's fine.
Ben:We have to, then we sort of accept that.
Ben:But it is also worthwhile trying to understand, well, is it that they're not ready to do it?
Ben:Or that I haven't yet kind of explained to them, help them understand how I can help them get to the place that they want to want to get to.
Ben:It's that thing, you know.
Ben:Does no mean no or does no mean that they don't know?
Ben:Uh, and it's just kind of, it's worth keeping an open mind.
Ben:But I guess the, the guided idea, it's really not about you.
Ben:It is about where they are in their own kind of understanding, their own sort of decision making.
Carlos:So to answer your question, from my perspective, Vittoria, um, how do I deal with plant rejection?
Carlos:Badly.
Carlos:I really love the work that I do.
Carlos:I, I identify very much with how I.
Carlos:and the things that I do in terms of my work.
Carlos:And so when I offer that as a, as a, like, this is my baby, and I say, would you like my baby?
Carlos:And someone says, no, that hurts.
Carlos:That's like, that is painful rejection.
Carlos:It's like, Ugh.
Carlos:What is it?
Carlos:What's wrong?
Carlos:What's wrong with it?
Carlos:What's wrong with me?
Carlos:Why don't you, why don't you want it?
Carlos:If you, if you love what you do and you really, you know, and it's something that you've been designing and creating and crafting and you know, really working on, and you share it with someone and they don't like it, it will hurt full stop, unless you're a psychopath.
Carlos:Or, or an enlightened Buddha, because that's, for me, the other aspect of this, and I think this has Ben's sort of alluding to, is like, how do we become lovingly unattached to what we do?
Carlos:Not the, oh, I don't care.
Carlos:I'm just gonna throw this thing out there.
Carlos:And if they don't like it, they don't like it.
Carlos:If they like it, like it, no, because I don't think that's the kind, those are the kind of people that we work with then We're not those, you're not like that You actually care about your customers.
Carlos:And so the word in terms of, in terms of how do I deal with client rejection is like, the word that's banging up to mind was compassion.
Carlos:Self-compassion in terms of, I'm still going through the process of understanding how to sell what I do, and so this time round I haven't necessarily hit the mark, but I'm still working on it.
Carlos:And then compassion for the customers, like maybe they're confused, like Ben was saying, maybe they're confused, maybe they're stressed, maybe there's all sorts of things going on in their world that is, is affecting their ability to decide right now.
Carlos:And so being able to listen well and sense that and address.
Carlos:Maybe, you know, may.
Carlos:So just as a thing to maybe think about is like they are 99% there to actually buying from you, but there's this 1% which is, I don't know, an issue at home.
Carlos:Uh, a bereavement in the family, uh, some massive turmoil that they're going, you know, there's something just has nothing to do with you that has just overloaded their ability to make a decision or commit to something.
Carlos:And so if we don't listen to for that or understand that there might be something else going on, then we go saying, oh no, they just don't like what I do.
Carlos:And so I think there's just being a bit more mindful that there are more factors involved in someone's decision making process other than the price, the value, um, how you're doing it, who's, you know, lots of things that we talk about Happy Pricing course.
Carlos:And that's why I, I'm really interested about this.
Carlos:Not only because of Ben's like immense sort of knowledge around this and the, the research he's done it, but also from a personal point of view is like, how do I reframe this?
Carlos:Well, even reframe seems a bit strategic that how can I be with this so that I'm less critical of myself when it comes to rejection and, and pricing Well,
Carlos:. Ben: Yeah.
Carlos:Thanks Carlos, for bringing the humanity to the response.
Carlos:It made me realize that maybe I'm just a psychopath.
Carlos:No.
Carlos:Or so, so supremely enlightened, but you forget what it's like not to be enlightened.
Carlos:And maybe it's that that circle is that you go round from being really paranoid.
Carlos:Really, really, really like, no.
Carlos:And then they're like, oh, now I'm a psychopath and psycho.
Carlos:And then you're enlightened, or enlightened in a psychopath anyway.
Ben:Yeah.
Carlos:I was trying to butcher.
Carlos:Eddie is, Eddie Izzard sketch there.
Ben:There's a lot of kind of emotional charge around money.
Ben:That kind of goes deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep into, you know, our kind of psyche is our history.
Ben:So it's, it can feel like a really complicated area.
Ben:And so even actually the invitation to play with that, to experiment with that, uh, may feel like a sort of stretch too far for people because actually kind of inadvertently there are all of these kind of, sort of stories around it.
Ben:Uh, and so I guess my, the kind of final words would be kind of just acknowledge that a lot of those things will come up.
Ben:There may be kind of dis-ease, discomfort, uh, around it.
Ben:There may be some kind of resistance to it.
Ben:But, you know, um, kind of to kind of lean into that and just experiment, even if you experiment around the edges, even if you just play with the idea, actually.
Ben:Maybe what if this is not about me?
Ben:May, what if this is about what's happening with the person on the other side of the table?
Ben:What does that open up in terms of what that might mean for what I might charge, what I might earn, and the kind of the value of the work that I provide?
Carlos:So, a lovely lady in our community called Anya Pearse who, um, she's a positive psychology expert.
Carlos:She introduced me to this formula of performance can either equal capacity plus information.
Carlos:So I think our skills and our knowledge can incr, you know, add them together and, and that will increase our performance.
Carlos:Or performance equals capacity minus interference.
Carlos:Uh, and I mentioned that in the case of this, the interference here are our preconceptions and our assumptions about what a higher price means to us and to our customers.
Carlos:And so kind of my invitation for anyone who is, you know, you have something of value, you know that it, you know, you've sold it in the past, you know, people get something from it.
Carlos:But you know, you are working harder than you should for the amount of money you're, you are getting paid and there's something that's stopping you from actually breaking through that pricing ceiling and, and, and having more ease in your, in your life and your business to, to spend time doing other things, not just chasing your tail with cash flow.
Carlos:To consider this, what is the interference here?
Carlos:What is it that you could remove from these conversations?
Carlos:So what can you remove energetically and emotionally, potentially from these conversations that you have with customers that will allow you to just use the skills you have and the knowledge you have about your work and what people want, to then give yourself permission to play with these prices and play in the sense of, um, there are no rules, not play in the sense of just unethically mess around with people.
Carlos:Just to realize that the rules that we might be imposing on ourselves about how much we're allowed to, to earn, those rules are made up potentially by someone else.
Carlos:Uh, and a lot of this is, could be some just internal stories around what it means to earn more.
Carlos:And that's not easy.
Carlos:I'm not, I'm, I'm not in the saying that, oh, you should go away and do that.
Carlos:I've, I've spent many years and with many different people just talking about money and what that means, but I just wanted to let people understand that that is an important factor, not just the tactics and strategies that you might be getting from a course online.
Carlos:Um, and that's why I think why we are doing what we are doing is like we have so many people who are great at what they do.
Carlos:They just find it a challenge to get paid the right amount of money, and because of that, they, they, they don't, aren't able to continue the work.
Carlos:And so then there's so much value is left and is being missed out in the world because they can't do their work.
Carlos:And it's just because they don't think they can charge as much as they need to.
Carlos:Thank you very much, Ben.
Ben:Thank you, Carlos.
Carlos:Uh, so much more we could talk to here, but, um, it's, it's uh, hopefully just a little window, uh, into another way of thinking about pricing and money.
Carlos:In a couple of weeks time, I'm gonna bring this on, Ben, actually, I'm gonna try and invite someone, a guy called Ian and he's go, he, he was talking to me about testimonials.
Ben:Mm-hmm.
Carlos:And how writing good testimonials and using testimonials well can impact your prices.
Carlos:So I thought we might have a conversation about that.
Ben:Yeah.
Carlos:Cause he, he, you know, he, he was talking to me about like, you know, people, most of the time people, they, when they ask for testimonials, they just want people to say how good you are.
Ben:Mm.
Carlos:But actually there's a much more, um, sophisticated way of working with testimonials, which then also enable us to charge what we are worth.
Ben:Mm-hmm.
Carlos:And what he talked about as how do you sell the invisible.
Ben:Mm-hmm.
Ben:Nice.
Ben:Yeah.
Ben:Let's get him on.
Ben:Let's bring him in.
Ben:Wheel him into the hot house.
Carlos:Bring him on.
Carlos:We will wheel him in at the hot house.
Carlos:We'll, we will suck every bit of useful information out.
Ben:And share it.
Carlos:And share it just for you listeners.
Carlos:Just for you faithful followers.
Carlos:Thank you very much for your time and attention and until next Wednesday.
Carlos:We should have a catchphrase at the end of this.
Carlos:Like until next week, keep on pricing well.
Ben:I don't think that would work.
Ben:I don't think that's it.
