What Bruce Lee can teach us about how to conquer our tricky money stories

Carlos: 00:00:00

How is your August so far, Ben?

Ben: 00:00:01

I generally have quite a short attention span.

Ben: 00:00:04

And so I think my feeling about August so far was mainly shaped by the preceding 15 minutes where I was desperately trying to organize some pickup from holiday camps for the kids.

Carlos: 00:00:14

And they are now being picked up they are safe and sound good

Ben: 00:00:19

Who knows where they're going, but they're being picked up.

Carlos: 00:00:26

Today, the principle is talking about how we spend money.

Carlos: 00:00:32

And how that can affect how we receive money.

Carlos: 00:00:35

And when I was thinking about that, I was thinking about a book.

Carlos: 00:00:38

Tom Nixon's book, Work with Source, where there is a section in here around money.

Carlos: 00:00:43

Again, influenced by the work of Peter Koenig, and he's been thinking about this stuff with a friend of his and a colleague, Charles Davies.

Carlos: 00:00:53

There's like three different sort of categories that he puts people in, in terms of money.

Carlos: 00:00:59

There's pursuers, repellers and washing machines.

Ben: 00:01:04

Ooh.

Carlos: 00:01:04

And when I was, when the washing machines sounds like money laundering, uh, but the, the, the core bit about the washing machine is as soon as money comes in, it goes out.

Ben: 00:01:14

Mm-hmm.

Carlos: 00:01:15

That kind of thing.

Carlos: 00:01:15

I was having a conversation with Laurence the other day about spending money and how if we aren't able to spend a lot of money on something that's really important to us, how do we expect other people to spend money on us?

Carlos: 00:01:30

And then the whole Be Like Water thing is this kind of idea of flow, and for those of you who might not have read the email that we sent out, or the multitude of social media posts that I was pinging everywhere, but I was talking about a quote from Bruce Lee called Be Like Water, and there's a really good book by his daughter about his philosophies and his ideas of life and martial arts.

Carlos: 00:01:53

But this idea of being fluid, where water takes the shape of whatever container it's in.

Carlos: 00:02:02

And I'm linking this tenuously to this idea of talking about money because A, this is the idea of flow, how does money flow through our lives, but B, how we can be more fluid with our relationship to money, and how money in itself isn't anything particular, it's about the the meaning we put on money that governs how we use it.

Ben: 00:02:22

So I think in all of the things that you had spoken about, the conversation you were having with Laurence, you know, about, if we're not spending money on things or spending sort of material amount, whatever it is, that in some way, what we are willing to invest in does kind of point to what we are open to receiving somehow.

Ben: 00:02:40

And I've always kind of really felt that quite intuitively, and I don't know what it clearly what it is based in on whether it's kind of true or how it's true.

Ben: 00:02:49

But I think I kind of remember that in.

Ben: 00:02:51

running my company, that I had a really sort of strong feeling that actually, our ability to kind of invest, you know, increasing amounts, whether it was in ever senior team, whether it was in courses, whether it was in training, whatever it might be, our kind of our willingness to step into that, as uncomfortable as it may be, because it feels like money going out, did feel really linked to our ability to be open to opportunity coming back to us.

Carlos: 00:03:21

Kind of story that...

Carlos: 00:03:22

springs to mind for me was actually when I was a kid, I used to love comics.

Carlos: 00:03:27

particularly the Marvel comics.

Carlos: 00:03:29

And of course, you know, they could take some of them could cost quite a lot of money.

Carlos: 00:03:33

And because they did have no intrinsic educational value, my parents found no reason for giving me money to buy them.

Carlos: 00:03:43

And so I started a paper round purely so I could spend money in the way I wanted to spend it.

Carlos: 00:03:50

So that was one thing.

Carlos: 00:03:50

There's a sense of like, okay, I felt really free to buy whatever comics I wanted because it was my money.

Carlos: 00:03:56

But with that, there was always a sense of like guilt, a little bit of guilt.

Carlos: 00:04:01

And I remember thinking about it now, having done many conversations around money about My relationship to money.

Carlos: 00:04:09

One of the things that, a story that I've always had about money was money was safety.

Ben: 00:04:13

Mm-hmm.

Carlos: 00:04:13

Like if you had a certain amount of money in the bank, then you would be safe.

Carlos: 00:04:17

And, and of course it comes from childhood and what parent, the stories my parents would have about money.

Carlos: 00:04:23

And there's some other things around that.

Carlos: 00:04:24

But then any time I spent money, it was like I was spending some of my safety.

Ben: 00:04:29

Mm-hmm.

Ben: 00:04:30

Losing safety.

Carlos: 00:04:31

Losing safety, exactly.

Carlos: 00:04:33

And so while there would be things that I'd really like and I'd really want, even like just going traveling for a long time, you know, even my teens and just at uni, I always felt like, oh, I don't think I could spend that money because if I take it out of the bank account and I spend it on this experience then something uncomfortable is happening.

Carlos: 00:04:54

As opposed to saying, oh, I'm buying this amazing experience, I was like, oh, no, I'm also losing something here, which my interpretation was a bit of safety.

Carlos: 00:05:02

So there's that story.

Carlos: 00:05:04

Okay, I'm not spending money.

Carlos: 00:05:05

I'm not feeling free to spend money, even though it could be really beneficial in the long run.

Carlos: 00:05:11

And when I was like being paid money, there was a not so much a desperation, but there's A lot more weight placed on whether I got that money or not, because of this need or this thing that that money was going to buy me more safety.

Ben: 00:05:28

is there another story though in there that like because the thing with your parents, I'm not going to give you the money for comics because it's not educational.

Ben: 00:05:36

So there's a thing in there about whether.

Ben: 00:05:38

You're spending money appropriately.

Ben: 00:05:41

So yes, there's the safety thing.

Ben: 00:05:42

Then there's the additional thing.

Ben: 00:05:44

Am I spending money appropriately?

Ben: 00:05:46

Am I doing it wisely?

Ben: 00:05:48

Am I being frivolous?

Carlos: 00:05:49

Exactly.

Carlos: 00:05:50

And it's really interesting, very much one of the biggest things, of the clearest messages I remember from my dad was like, you know, he worked so he could give us the best education we could get.

Carlos: 00:06:02

And so money was what education which was something worthwhile being spent on something worthwhile and not frivolous.

Carlos: 00:06:12

And so there was this thing about you can't you can't be blasé with money Or you can't be frivolous with money, or you can't spend the money on something that doesn't have some real tangible Intrinsic value whatever that may mean.

Carlos: 00:06:28

So yeah, so then that again puts weight on if I'm gonna sell something, that has to have real tangible intrinsic value and there's basically whatever that means, I'm not sure, but there's this pedestal, this real high bar to being able to sell something.

Carlos: 00:06:45

And then it's me defining what that means and how much that is and that even always feeling a little bit out of reach because can I justify it?

Carlos: 00:06:53

Actually, that's the thing.

Carlos: 00:06:54

Can I justify it?

Carlos: 00:06:55

Can I justify this price every single time?

Ben: 00:06:58

Yeah, I mean, we do bring an awful lot of baggage to these conversations, whether it's the selling conversations and the pricing conversations, which of course, is just a subset of the selling conversation.

Ben: 00:07:10

But yeah, the like you're talking about the, you know, if, you know, if money and I had this as well, you know, if money is a thing around security and safety, Clearly, when money is going out, that feels desperately unsafe and desperately insecure.

Ben: 00:07:26

And then of course, sort of bleeds into conversations we might be having with prospective clients, where there is an additional need to get a sale done because I'm increasing my safety.

Ben: 00:07:41

And so you're kind of bringing, and I've definitely have kind of done that before, you're kind of bringing so much pressure inadvertently to the interaction, so much pressure, inflicting so much pressure on the person on the other side of the kind of metaphorical table.

Ben: 00:08:01

Making it very difficult for them to step into that dialogue.

Carlos: 00:08:05

And then I think interestingly on that, on that as well with that, um, uh, the other person and what we think the other person is, or the energy that other person's entering this conversation, uh, with, and linking it to, um, what a comment that Frances has made about, you know, we think we're talking about money and how we talk about our spending with others.

Carlos: 00:08:26

I, you know, I, I know people who are quite happy to spend.

Carlos: 00:08:29

money without guilt or hesitation.

Carlos: 00:08:33

And so if we meet someone who's quite happy to give us money, and the money, you know, the more money than we think is of value in a sense, but then we stop, because we think the stories they have in their head are the same stories as we have in our head, then a we're missing an opportunity to actually get paid well.

Carlos: 00:08:54

But B, we're imposing our own beliefs and perceptions on someone else that may have a completely different life experience and also ability to pay.

Carlos: 00:09:08

And so we're limiting other people.

Carlos: 00:09:11

By our own limiting beliefs in a sense.

Carlos: 00:09:13

And so there's a, with that in mind, there's a, there's, there's a, I think a need to have skillful conversations around money that, or my, in my head, it's like, can create conflict.

Carlos: 00:09:26

So there will be people who will have very different attitudes to money.

Carlos: 00:09:29

They have their own money story.

Carlos: 00:09:30

So to be able to understand that and know that and to have come, you know, dialogue with those people without necessarily judgment on, our judgment on them, but also for their stories to then start to encroach on ours, so that we can then be a bit more free to work in that situation, whether it's a negotiation or whether it's talking to friends or family around money.

Carlos: 00:09:57

Because that's a classic thing is like we might want you know for instance if I want to spend 30 euros on an Aperol spritz, my mom would go what are you doing you're crazy why are you spending that money you could like Buy 10 of those or something from the supermarket down the road.

Carlos: 00:10:16

And to say, yes, but I want to sit here in front of the Coliseum and drink it now.

Carlos: 00:10:22

I don't want to walk like 10 minutes to the nearest supermarket to then buy some and then sit on a street corner and drink it.

Carlos: 00:10:30

And so to then kind of stand in your own reasoning as to, I, that's why I'm doing this.

Carlos: 00:10:36

And yes, I accept what you're saying.

Carlos: 00:10:37

And yes, you're probably you're right from that perspective.

Carlos: 00:10:40

But from my point of view.

Carlos: 00:10:41

I'm buying an experience, I'm not just buying a drink.

Ben: 00:10:44

Yeah, which is then a lot about confidence and clarity around your own motivation and confidence and your ability to be able to sort of talk about that and whatever the actual scenario is, you know, it all comes back to then your confidence and clarity.

Ben: 00:10:59

I guess one of the other things which was coming up and you were talking a bit, you know, we talk a lot about the idea that money is a signal, price is a signal.

Ben: 00:11:07

And this is true, I think, also for how we how we spend money.

Ben: 00:11:11

And I think For me, I've sort of used buying things, used investing in things, whether it's in people, whether it's in support, whether it's in ideas around kind of helping me and in the work that I do, as a signal to myself too.

Ben: 00:11:26

So, kind of, sort of stepping into, you know, investing in somebody, investing in things that was, is maybe much more than I might immediately have been sort of comfortable with, or much more, or relatively more than we had ever done previously.

Ben: 00:11:40

And sort of use the discomfort of that as a signal to myself, that I'm kind of willing and able to step into these, these kind of, sort of realms of discomfort.

Ben: 00:11:51

Um, and kinda using those as a, as a kind of motivation, as a marker, that actually, you know, that this is, this is all, it's part of a kind of bigger learning.

Ben: 00:11:59

It's part of a, of a deeper process.

Carlos: 00:12:01

Wow.

Carlos: 00:12:02

Sounds like spending money is a spiritual journey.

Ben: 00:12:04

There we go, okay.

Carlos: 00:12:07

How uncomfortable am I going to be putting all this money down on a new sports car?

Carlos: 00:12:12

And what is that telling me about my journey?

Ben: 00:12:14

Oh, I don't like sports cars.

Carlos: 00:12:19

There's an interesting comment I think just from Frances here around, so I think related to the conversations we may have with friends or family to justify or reinforce our decisions around money.

Carlos: 00:12:32

When we are selling, particularly if it's coaching or some kind of, you know, for instance with the Happy Startup School, we're selling a retreat to the Alps.

Carlos: 00:12:40

And so, for some people it sounds like, if you look at the photos, it looks like a holiday, it looks like a complete jolly.

Carlos: 00:12:48

And so, for someone buying that and then having to then go back to friends or family, parents, whoever it is, and say, actually, I'm going on a serious, I'm spending this much money, And I need to justify it somehow.

Carlos: 00:13:03

So in a sense, A, we need to help our customers spend the money because it's going to help them, but B, we need to get our stories out of the way in order to equip them with the right stories themselves, or the most helpful stories for them to boldly...

Carlos: 00:13:19

And confidently spend that money and feel the value of spending that money rather than the guilt.

Ben: 00:13:27

Because, yeah, the, um, the, the thing is it, you know, it, the blocker might be the story that they feel they need to tell somebody else, the story that they need to justify.

Ben: 00:13:37

It could be a range of other things.

Ben: 00:13:39

But equally, you know, in all in all circumstances, in all instances, if we're not getting our own money stories out the way, we have no chance of really hearing what those objections, what those worries, might be in the kind of heart mind of the person you're speaking to.

Ben: 00:13:56

And we can't hear those.

Ben: 00:13:59

And of course, we're never going to be able to support them in, you know, in helping them sort of clarify what the story is they need to tell other people.

Ben: 00:14:07

But yeah, so the more in our way we are, the more in their way we are.

Carlos: 00:14:12

And so in terms of that whole working on the money stories stuff, what experiences have you had around this work that you found useful or beneficial?

Ben: 00:14:22

Well, I think with all of these things, oftentimes, it is the clarity, isn't it?

Ben: 00:14:26

It's that's the first and most important, sorry, let's carry the awareness.

Ben: 00:14:30

Awareness that these things are playing on me.

Ben: 00:14:33

And, you know, the more you get that sort of slither of light on that, some sort of some awareness that, oh, all of this sort of stuff is bubbling around, all of this stuff is affecting me.

Ben: 00:14:46

And I think in a way, I guess the unfortunate sort of truth behind that is, you know, your question in terms of what the kind of ideal response is, you know, yes, there are some small things, all sort of small or big things or exercises or whatever, that help people start to.

Ben: 00:15:02

understand that help bring some awareness to the idea that there are some things which are kind of bubbling around which are affecting you on a kind of money stories level.

Ben: 00:15:11

But i think if i reflect on my own experience of actually doing this it's kind of many years work in a way, isn't it?

Ben: 00:15:18

It's kind of it's an initial awareness.

Ben: 00:15:20

And like for me, the things we've sort of shared on this and sort of sharing the course and things which goes all the way back to a first question that was asked of me, you know, where a teacher, when I was doing a course and the teacher leans in and says, if I was to say to you, money, money, money, money, what comes up for you?

Ben: 00:15:42

And just, you know, just being asked that question at that time sort of revealed to me that shit, actually loads of stuff comes up for me.

Ben: 00:15:50

There's loads of associations.

Ben: 00:15:52

There's loads of stories.

Ben: 00:15:53

There's loads of worries.

Ben: 00:15:54

There's loads of doubts, which I could sort of, you know, start to see threads, you know, all the way back into my kind of past and family history and all of those sorts of things.

Ben: 00:16:05

But, you know, that kind of initial questioning sort of revealed the kind of the kind of mass of the snake pit if you like.

Ben: 00:16:12

And then the truth was it was just over time and continually reminding myself and continually sort of seeing that actually all of this stuff was going on, all of these connections were there, that I was kind of able slowly and sort of slowly step by step to increasingly get a little bit of space from it.

Ben: 00:16:30

But of course that never means that those things have gone away it just means you have some more a kind of awareness over you have some, you have understanding that the voice is there you have understanding that those stories are there, and it just gives you a chance to kind of cat catch yourself a little bit before those stories rush in and kind of trounce any conversation that you might be having around pricing, around spending money, around selling something.

Ben: 00:16:56

And you know, oftentimes, I catch myself before the story rushes in, but for sure never all of the time, because like, you know, those stories run deep.

Ben: 00:17:04

And so for me, you know, I guess there isn't so much a simple thing.

Ben: 00:17:09

For me, the journey was questions which helped reveal the fact that all of these stories were there, then a continual practice, then a range of tools to just keep working on it, to keep aware that those things were affecting me, and then an ongoing practice.

Carlos: 00:17:27

Yeah, one of the key things then for me to add onto that is just a bit of self compassion.

Carlos: 00:17:34

And this real not giving myself such a hard time, A, for having the stories now that I'm aware of them, B, for then bumping into them again when they crop up thinking that I've dealt with them, but C, just this, I think, creating some freedom to be able to flow around them.

Carlos: 00:17:53

Trying to bring it back to being like water here.

Carlos: 00:17:55

But i've got this image now of like you know these stories are like big rocks in the way and you either just slam into them each time or you learn.

Carlos: 00:18:06

You can't get rid of them.

Carlos: 00:18:07

They sound you know and there's this thing around like uh you this spiritual path of self knowledge and identity and it's trying to dissolve the ego and just becoming much more zen, yes, and then there's the rest of us who have got this shit that we're going to carry around for the rest of our lives.

Carlos: 00:18:22

It's just whether we slam into the these stories each time, or we can somehow Just be a bit more easeful and flow around them.

Carlos: 00:18:28

Find ways to flow around them and acknowledge them.

Carlos: 00:18:31

Say, yeah, that's there.

Carlos: 00:18:32

It came from there.

Carlos: 00:18:34

I'm not going to beat myself about it because of it.

Carlos: 00:18:36

And yes, in this situation, I could have maybe spoken a bit more eloquently, been a bit more clear, been more confident in that.

Carlos: 00:18:43

Negotiation, that selling opportunity or putting a price somewhere, but this thing got in the way.

Carlos: 00:18:49

And sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.

Carlos: 00:18:51

So I think there's, I want to remove any need for someone to say, right, I can't do proper business until I've sorted out my money stories, to be able to say and, unless you do have a think about these things, they're going to get in your way again and again.

Carlos: 00:19:06

So it's like, and I would say actually through the process of doing business, if you do it in a way that is a bit more conscious, you will find these stories.

Carlos: 00:19:15

And then it's knowing what to do with them once you've found them as a part of this journey.

Carlos: 00:19:20

So rather than it being, I'm going to make something, I'm going to make loads of money, I'm going to build this business, it's going to be massive, it's going to be amazing, nothing else is going to be important, realising actually you're going to learn so much more about yourself on the journey and enjoying that or sort of gain benefit from that.

Ben: 00:19:33

One of the things which is coming up and I'd be kind of curious, maybe an interesting place to finish would be what Tom talks about in that book around what those three types are.

Ben: 00:19:42

I'd be kind of curious to know about that.

Ben: 00:19:43

But the thing which was just coming up as you were talking there, On the other podcast that I have, I was interviewing an economist and we were talking about money.

Ben: 00:19:53

And so where money comes from, he was kind of making the observation, which I was just reminded of as you were talking there about the kind of the number of water references.

Ben: 00:20:03

which are stitched into money.

Ben: 00:20:05

So there's current, currency, there are banks, and the kind of flow of this, so actually this idea of kind of river, this idea of flow, the kind of continual flow, actually is kind of language which is appropriated in all different places around money, and he was sort of talking as an economist, actually, with an understanding of money and where it comes from and what our relationship, actually, the opportunity in a way, what you're talking about is, to your last question, one, there is a thing around understanding.

Ben: 00:20:34

Yes, then there's the kind of need for compassion.

Ben: 00:20:36

Then there is the kind of, you know, what am I aspiring to?

Ben: 00:20:40

And the thing that I'm aspiring to, this point around flow, this, you know, this slow, But sort of, you know, sort of kind journey to an increasing comfort around flow, increasing the ease around it, increasing the ease around which I kind of sort of spend money so that it is a bit more kind of playful as a reference back to some of the earlier things that we've done.

Ben: 00:21:00

But I think what's interesting around the water idea and that sort of story is it is an aspirational place.

Ben: 00:21:07

It is a thing to aspire to, a thing to aim to in how we go about our work.

Carlos: 00:21:13

I'm actually that's sparked another thought in my head here is these three layers of looking at society, our own circumstances, situations.

Carlos: 00:21:25

There's symptoms, there's systems, and there's stories.

Carlos: 00:21:29

And so what is the story that's going to make, help me create the right system that then will create the benefits and symptoms that are useful to me?

Carlos: 00:21:41

And so there's a story around money is scarce, money needs to be hoarded, money needs to be kept, money is safety, that then you have this system around it, and the behavior around money that then creates these actions and these symptoms that you have in your life, whether that's always fear of not having enough or feeling like everyone's conning you or something like that.

Carlos: 00:22:02

And so when I think about stories, and I think, again, linking it back to this idea of be like water, with Bruce Lee he was talking about qi, and life force and life energy.

Carlos: 00:22:14

I don't know if that's true.

Carlos: 00:22:15

Because I was always curious about what's the truth, you know, what is the right model that describes the world well, or accurately?

Carlos: 00:22:24

That's it, accurately.

Carlos: 00:22:26

I think there's having the accurate story and there's having a story that helps.

Carlos: 00:22:31

And I think with something like, for instance, with qi and this idea of life energy and flow of life energy, I don't know if it's real, I don't know if it's true, it's a bit woo woo, but it can help explain.

Carlos: 00:22:42

Many things, and it can also help govern how, particularly in martial arts, how you move and how you think about movement.

Carlos: 00:22:48

Similarly, what story about money can you have that then allows you to behave with it?

Carlos: 00:22:56

in the right way?

Carlos: 00:22:57

And so if I think of the story of money like water, where when it gets stagnant, it festers, and it starts to smell.

Carlos: 00:23:05

And if you think of money needs to flow, always flow, then how do I behave with it?

Carlos: 00:23:10

So I let it flow all the time?

Carlos: 00:23:12

And that it's, it's, there's lots of it.

Carlos: 00:23:14

And if it flows, then it will never stop.

Carlos: 00:23:16

It'll never run out, because it's always going round and round.

Carlos: 00:23:19

And so if I have that story in my mind and I behave with it in that way.

Carlos: 00:23:24

Then it feels like there's a abundance potentially to to be created in my life.

Carlos: 00:23:30

Not that I'm gonna have lots and lots of money It's just like when I need it, it's there when I don't need it, I don't need it.

Ben: 00:23:35

No, I like the I like the the kind of reminder there to focus on the story, and to kind of, it's, it's, yeah, I think that's a really, that's a really good idea actually, to kind of think, okay, what story do I want to underpin these things?

Ben: 00:23:50

'Cause the story is gonna underpin these things.

Ben: 00:23:52

So how sort of conscious am I of what that story is and what choice do I have?

Ben: 00:23:58

Lots, over what I want that story to be.

Ben: 00:24:01

And what am I going to choose to practice?

Ben: 00:24:03

Because, you know, I think like just what we're talking about, I think it would be really interesting kind of, you know, to have a really deliberate intentional practice of marinating in that story of money as kind of river, money as flow, that sort of space.

Ben: 00:24:18

Of course, that's kind of very, you know, for those of us who also had a story that money was safety, money was security, you know that is directly sort of challenging to that but i think i'm really kind of interested really really really good practice i think to to play with that idea how to kind of marinate it into existing a different story for a while

Carlos: 00:24:38

And i'd like to expand that as well in terms of the the stories around money but there's the stories around your work, there's the stories around like our course, you know, there's a story there, we call it Happy Pricing because there's a story of ease and there's happiness and like levity and just enjoyment, not just about accumulating.

Carlos: 00:24:57

And so that's the story that's infused in the way that we work.

Carlos: 00:25:00

And then of course how we think about our businesses, how we think about our lives, is that all of these things, I'm getting more and more, I appreciate more and more that Intentionally choosing those stories and then using them as nearly the brief, the DNA of what you do.

Carlos: 00:25:15

I think that's something worth considering and how that can influence your choices as to whether to do the Happy Pricing course, to keep listening to this podcast, to click the subscribe button.

Carlos: 00:25:28

What story do you want in your life and how do you want to feel?

Ben: 00:25:31

I'm going to flush those people away.

Carlos: 00:25:35

So I hope, as well as kind of help you think, well, maybe bring some awareness that there are these stories around money that you have, I'm hoping that also makes you think about what stories you tell in other aspects of your life and business.

Ben: 00:25:49

Experiment to link back to the earlier podcast which we explored via Frances's helpful prompts, maybe this is a thing to experiment with.

Ben: 00:26:00

Experimenting with different stories.

Carlos: 00:26:02

Yeah, actually, I love that.

Ben: 00:26:03

Like a different set of clothes.

Carlos: 00:26:05

I really love that because I think that's one of the things that Laurence and I didn't do well in business, is we got our heads down, we just did the work and we thought we knew what we were doing, and we knew exactly everything we needed to know.

Carlos: 00:26:14

But in fact going out there, having different experiences, talking to different people, getting different perspectives, seeing what stories resonate and fit and give you new perspective on how to do things, I think, yeah.

Carlos: 00:26:27

Be a story searcher, find out those stories, and bring them back to us and let us know and we can maybe talk about them on the next Happy Pricing podcast.

Carlos: 00:26:37

Thank you very much, everyone.

Carlos: 00:26:39

Take care, and I hope that has been enlightening, or at least entertaining.